The Alien (CometotheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)

[Frank]

Welcome to the game; you are The Alien

ALIGNMENT: Malicious Third-Party
GENERIC: Serial Killer
WIN CONDITION: You will win if you and the Host of your Spawn (see below) are two of the last four players alive.

BACKGROUND:

ENCRYPTED TRANSMISSION - To: Roger Carter, Brig. Gen; From - Dallas, Captain, Shuttle Nostromo.

General: Code 615, Level 5. Primary specimen escaped. Life form is highly adaptable and disposed to violent confrontation. It is believed that specimen evacuated Nostromo in empty personnel escape pod. Trajectory analysis suggests pod made landfall somewhere in central Michigan; however, Recovery Team efforts have not located primary specimen at this time.

Specimen is female, and expected to attempt breeding. Local residents should be advised to exercise extreme caution when approaching unfamiliar wildlife.

- Dallas

POWERS:
1. On any Night on which you do not mate (see below), you may slash, bite, or otherwise maim a target of your choice, killing them unless other powers intervene. You are not required to kill.

2. On Night One, you may not kill. Instead, you will choose a target and mate with them; your target will become host for your Spawn. This will have no game effect on the Host, although he or she will be aware of a bit of apparent indigestion during the Day following his/her infection.

Thereafter, for as long as your Spawn’s Host remains alive, you may kill at Night.

Should your Spawn’s Host be killed by any means, your Spawn will die, and the world at large will see evidence of its life and death. If this happens, your primary imperative – to reproduce – will again take over. You may choose another target and produce another Spawn on any Night following the death of a Host. Until you do, you may not kill.

You begin with sufficient genetic material to create up to three Spawn. However, your culture emphasizes focused parenthood; you may have only one Spawn in existence at any given time. Should all of your genetic material be expended and wasted (ie, if you produce three Spawn and all are killed), your existence will be viewed as a miserable failure and you will destroy yourself in abject humiliation.

3. Your Spawn are genetically inclined to be as protective of you as you are of them. Should an attempt be made on your life while a Spawn is currently active, that active Spawn will burst from its host and save you, at the cost of its own (and its host’s) life. Your Spawn will be unable to protect you in the event that you are lynched, but it will try, killing its host in the process.

[catinasuit]

In some ways, that's really unfair on the Alien to only give it three Spawn or else its dead.
Especially as Night kills beyond its control could completely screw it over.

Apart from the first spawn, I would give them the option of either impregnating a new player or killing. However, if they don't have a spawn at the end of the game regardless of how it ends, they lose.

This is likely to mean that the kill for the first few Nights but then have to risk spawning at some point. Of course, it also means that they don't have Night protection either.

[Frank]

Sept 21, 2010 7:43:36 GMT -5 catinasuit said:

In some ways, that's really unfair on the Alien to only give it three Spawn or else its dead.
Especially as Night kills beyond its control could completely screw it over.

Apart from the first spawn, I would give them the option of either impregnating a new player or killing. However, if they don't have a spawn at the end of the game regardless of how it ends, they lose.

This is likely to mean that the kill for the first few Nights but then have to risk spawning at some point. Of course, it also means that they don't have Night protection either.

Well, the problem is that the point of the role would be to force the Alien to work to defend its Spawn by Day, because each one is precious. If you think about how it will play out, three is actually quite a lot. I suppose it's possible that the Alien will get tremendously unlucky, and its chosen Hosts will die Nights One, Two, and Three... but that's fairly unlikely.

I see your point, though. Let me think about it a bit.

[catinasuit]

Sept 21, 2010 7:52:32 GMT -5 Frank said:

Well, the problem is that the point of the role would be to force the Alien to work to defend its Spawn by Day, because each one is precious. If you think about how it will play out, three is actually quite a lot. I suppose it's possible that the Alien will get tremendously unlucky, and its chosen Hosts will die Nights One, Two, and Three... but that's fairly unlikely.

I see your point, though. Let me think about it a bit.

So defending someone who will be revealed to be an alien spawn

If there was no reveal, I could understand it. But currently it is going to look reaaaaaaally suspicious to the rest of the players. Especially the second time it happens.

[sachertorte]

I'm of the opinion that three is just about right. Essentially the 3 spawn are Two unblockable protections from NK, with a lynch circumvent. Upping the number of spawn to 4 would make for 3 unblockable NK, which is high. At the very least, the Alien role and win condition is easier than a standard SK so I think it is fine as is.

Even though the Alien loses a spawn if he gets targetted for death at night:
(1) The end result is much better than dying, which is the usual SK outcome
(2) Dead Spawn takes out a players as well, so that's an extra kill which works for the Alien's advantage too. In fact, optimal play would be for the Alien to get 'nightkilled' twice.

The one thing I would change is the win condition. As written it looks like:
Alien + spawn(town) + Town + Town is a Town win, which doesn't make sense to me.

[catinasuit]

I agree three is the right number of spawn and the wincon should be changed to sachertorte's version.
I just think after Day 1 the Alien should get the choice of spawn or kill.

[sachertorte]

I suppose you could give the alien the choice, but creating more than one spawn at a time is sub-optimal anyway. More active spawns means more possibilities for losing a spawn to lynch or NK. Better to save those puppies up for endgame.

Although the alien does have the added risk of lynched spawn immediately followed by NK.

[catinasuit]

Only one spawn active at a time, I think, but must create a spawn on Day 1.

[Frank]

OK. I think I'm persuaded. So it's three Spawn, one at a time, but after the first one, Spawning is non-mandatory.

How about if instead of the bulky system I have, it goes like this:

1. Must Spawn at Night.
2. Once Spawned, may kill on subsequent Nights.
3. If Spawn is killed, Alien may not kill until it Spawns again. However, it needn't Spawn immediately.
4. Since Spawning replaces Killing as a Night action, this will strongly incline the Alien toward Spawning quickly if Spawn is killed, without requiring it.

Still too onerous?

----

Also: if the game state is:

Alien
Townie (Spawn infected)
Scum
Scum

Who wins?

[catinasuit]

sounds good to me.

in your example, alien wins

[sachertorte]

Sept 21, 2010 10:05:19 GMT -5 Frank said:

Also: if the game state is:

Alien
Townie (Spawn infected)
Scum
Scum

Who wins?

This is a tough one. While I'm OK with Alien winning a Alien+spawn(Town)+scum+scum, it is a bit of a bummer for scum.

What is even more troubling is an Alien+spawn(scum)+scum+scum situation. Here we have what are nominally 3 Scum in the final 4. I have a hard time justifying an Alien win at this point, but I also have a hard time awarding scum with the win outright.

If P4 happens at Dawn, then presumably the 3 scum will vote for the alien to lynch, and both Alien and Spawn will die, leaving 2 Scum for the win.

If P4 happens at Dusk, then presumably Alien will kill a non-spawn scum, scum will kill the alien, but only kill the spawn, leaving Alien and 1 scum alive at Dawn. No Lynch is possible, but the Alien if he has a spawn left, can infect the last scum during the Day and Win at Dusk of P2. If the Alien is out of spawn, then Scum wins.

Does that make sense?

So my answer is: it depends on where we are in the cycle:

Final Four with Alien and Spawn at DAWN:
- If there is less than 3 Scum, Alien WINS
- If there are Three Scum, Scum WINS

Final Four with Alien and Spawn at DUSK:
- If there is less than 3 Scum, Alien WINS
- If there are Three Scum, And the alien has a potential spawn left, Alien WINS
- If there are Three Scum, And the alien cannot make any addtional spawn, Scum WINS.

[Frank]

So I agree in principle with the possibilities you outline above, sach, it does create issues with the wording of the win conditions, which I think should be as straightforward as possible.

What about this:

Scum win if following any Dusk or any Dawn there are more Scum than non-Scum alive.

Alien wins if it and its Spawn are both among the final four players alive.

Town wins if all Scum are eliminated.

However, win conditions are checked in the order above.

So at F4, if there are 3 Scum (1 infected) and 1 Alien, we check Scum wincon first. Scum win.

If there are 2 Scum, 1 Town (infected), and 1 Alien, we check Scum wincon first. Scum do not win. Now we check the Alien wincon. Alien wins.

If there are 3 Town (1 infected) and 1 Alien, we check Scum (no), then Alien (yes). Alien wins.

However, this does allow for the Town to win while the Alien is still alive (by eliminating all Scum before F4).

It also doesn't take the Redshirt into consideration, but I'll jump off that bridge when I come to it.

--------------

Gah. I don't know. Might be simplest to just build in the requirement that third parties be eliminated into both Scum and Town wincons. In such a case, a 3 Scum (1 infected) + 1 Alien final four means a Scum win... but the Scum knew that there was a risk of losing to a third-party.

----

Which option do you each prefer? The second option is cleaner, but results in potentially unsatisfying outcomes. The first option generates complexity in terms of giving people clear goals for which to play.

[sachertorte]

My opinion is that the second method is cleaner AND prevents unsatisfying outcomes. While scum won't be happy about having 3 players still alive at endgame and losing, they would have been told outright that 3rd parties need to be eliminated. With the possibility of a Mad Bomber or SK or whatever, someone winning at Final Four isn't too surprising. If the SK could win at Final 5 or 6, then I think it would be a bigger problem. Essentially, I'm saying that at near endgame, scum need to acknowledge that they have to meet their win condition which includes removing 3rd Parties. Furthermore, spawn Death should be a decent indication to scum that they have work to do.

The only way I can see a 3scum+1Alien final four is if scum mess up monumentally. If scum fail to NK the alien, then they failed to take out their enemy. If scum try to NK the alien, and see something else happen as a result, then leading up to final four, scum would have had a strong influence in the lynch votes. In other words, scum would have had opportunity to know that they failed to NK the alien and yet did not enact a lynch of the alien.

In short, if Alien wins against 3 scum at final four, then the Alien earned that win and scum failed to eliminate their enemy.

[catinasuit]

Ok, a round up of the wincons in the game, because they are going to get overly complicated.

Currently it is as follows

Town: All Scum have been vanquished. (Deadites + leader)?

Scum: The number of Scum players remaining is greater than the number of non-Scum players remaining.

Redshirt: Needs to be one of the last three people standing.

Alien: Needs to be alive and have a spawn in the final four.

The four wincons need to be exclusive.

From the above I think it is best of the third parties are included in the scum and town wincons.

Also, I think the 3rd parties need to eliminate each other in order to win. Having the redshirt as a spawn doesn't count. In fact, I would suggest giving the redshirt spawn immunity

[Frank]

So the following changes are proposed:

Town: You win when all anti-Town elements, including Scum and malicious Third-Parties, if any, are dead.

Scum: You win when the number of Scum players is equal to or greater than the number of non-Scum players and all malicious Third-Parties, if any, are dead.

Alien: You win if you and the Host of your Spawn are among the last four players alive at any Dusk or Dawn.

Redshirt: You win if you are among the last three players standing.

As Cat notes, this still involves conflict between the Redshirt and Alien wincons (what happens if we are at P5 involving both, and then there are two kills, leaving us at P3, including Redshirt, Alien, and one infected Town?).

I am less than satisfied with the requirement that the third parties eliminate one another, not least because it would require explicitly stating to each that there are other third parties. Is there a cleaner way to make their win conditions exclusive?

OR - could we declare the above situation (final three of Redshirt, Alien, and single infected player) a shared win between the Redshirt and Alien? That is, both third-parties have wins exclusive to Town, but not necessarily to one another?

I actually am all right with that. The idea of the Evil Necromancer and the acid-dripping alien, having eliminated all other beings, mutually agreeing to move on, seems workable.

If we did that, I might change the Redshirt's wincon such that he needs only to make the final four in possession of the Necronomicon to win - otherwise his task is somewhat more difficult than the Alien's.

What do you think of this idea?

----------

Also:

1. I'm modifying the Alien's PM to reflect our conversation so far. I'll wait to modify all the wincons of the other roles until we're sure that's settled.

2. I think given the added SK, we need about two more Town roles. I am thinking one plain Vanilla, and one other role. Some options:

Vote Charger (can add a vote) - I kind of dislike voting powers, though
Crazy Townie - if (s)he's lynched, he gets a free kill but must select someone who voted for him/her
Hider - Hides behind a target; if the Hider is targeted for any action, it affects the Hider's target instead. However, actions targeting the target affect the Hider instead.

Others?