Freddy vs. Predator: Game Thread

[Frank]

Since the ongoing discussion of the Freddy/Predator tete-a-tete seems to be spilling into all the threads, I thought I'd create a centralized place to develop their basic game.

Here's my understand of what we have so far:

1.There are two players: one with the role of "Freddy Krueger" and one with the role of "Predator." Both will have unspecified killing and other powers. Their list of would-be targets will overlap, but each will have some targets that they cannot kill and some that they can (notably, I'd make it such that Predator can't kill pro-Town power roles or half the vanillas; Freddy can't kill Demons or the other half of the vanillas. If we balance it properly, Predator and Freddy would play as slightly pro-Town and slightly pro-Scum, respectively.

2. Each kill will earn the killer points. Should we assign point value to each kill, dependiing on difficulty, or should it be a straight accounting? Whichever killer has the most points at the end of the game, regardless of outcome otherwise, wins. The other loses. Neither killer wins in the event of a tie.

3. Does a PFK have to be alive to win? If Freddy kills four players and Predator kills two, and both are killed on Night Five, does that mean they both lose?

4. I think it would be fun to give both players access to a Night discussion board. They wouldn't know each others' identities, and they'd have to log-in as "Freddy" and "Predator," respectively, but they could taunt one another, try to confuse one another, whatever they want. Thoughts?

[sachertorte]

1. I think for balance you would want the two roles to be functionally symmetric to the rest of the game. I would suggest 33% of the population be immune to both, 33% immune to Predator, 33% immune to Freddy, and 0% immune to none. I wouldn't distinguish between scum and Town for these purposes. Therefore if there are 3 scum then there will be one of each category. (I made 0% immune to none to avoid the sticky situation of what happens if both target the same person).

2 and 3 address win conditions. I think the SK needs to be alive to win, especially so if the SK win preempts other wins. So if SK win is exclusive, then SK must be alive. If SK win can occur with a Town win or a scum win, then survival could be made optional.
I agree that at tie equals a double loss.

4. It's an interesting idea, but my concerns are: a) why would they be motivated to talk to each other. I guess taunting is the only reason. But the potential for giving oneself away would make silence the ideal MO. b) what if they work together? Not that they would or should, but what if? Would that break the game? I'm thinking no, but I just want to be sure.

[Frank]

1. This is fair, I suppose. Here's the thing, and it ties in to #2, too:

I think it would be most interesting to make the two SK's fundamentally different, not just in target list, but in optimal style.

One of them (Predator) would be a slow-and-steady killer; one Night kill per Night, perhaps slightly more eligible targets or something, any additional powers - like Night kill immunity or something like that - focusing on keeping him/her alive long enough to get lots of kills. This player's primary goal would be staying alive, with the kills almost incidental.

The other (Freddy) might have means by which he could hypothetically generate more than one kill per Day/Night cycle (not routinely, but once or twice a game). He might have certain methods of earning credit for certain lynches. But he'd have no resistance to Night kills whatsoever, and perhaps more ways of getting caught. HIS goal would be to pile up the bloodshed and play a bit more aggressively.

I think that would generate a really interesting interaction. Which leads to:

#2-3. I think the SK win conditions could be independent of the Town/Scum's. Essentially, we'd say to them at the beginning of the game: "Barring a tie, at the end of the game, however it ends, one of you wins and one of you loses."

4. You're right, the optimal playstyle would be to say nothing. But the optimal playstyle for a pro-Town Vigilante who is not required to kill is usually not to kill Night One, yet over and over they do. I think if they have the chance to talk, they will; they won't be able to help themselves.

And if they work together, so what? They are in direct and exclusive competition, so neither could much trust the other. If they start developing joint plans one of them will sell out the other pretty damn quickly, I'd guess. I can't see how it would break the game if they worked together for a while, other than upping the overall body count in the early game.

[Frank]

Also - I think a big question will turn out to be: one point per kill, period? Or different kills = different point values?

[The Guy with the Gun]

4. The only thing I really like though is the "What the-" realization moment when the players realize that they're dealing with a Predator.
-I wouldn't mind the talking thing, but I'd be more amused if they didn't know WHAT the other was. So it was just Sk1 and Sk2 talking to each other. Because I like no one knowing that the other guy is a predator. Allows him to get away with role claims better too vs. having another player out there who can call his bluff.

*I'd say one point per kill.
And I like sach's make everything equal sorta method with the 33% across the boards sorta thing.

*I'm a fan of the 2 different playing styles sorta angle. So 2 killers with DIFFERING styles. As that's just more fun to see which will reign supreme.

*if we do the killers, I'd think you should let them know that they don't care aobut Town vs. Scum- the goal is simply to BEAT the other killer primarily. And once they have done that, then they can try to play for the SK Win.
Basically they've got 2 games to play (This is what I had to do for my Riddler/Hush dual SKs).

Ie: Make them play for 1st place AMONG themselves. So their win condition is INDEPENDENT of the Town's. So Townies can win, and one of the SKs can defeat the other.
-Then have it once that objective is reached, they can try to play as an SK vs. the players as well.
-So space it out: Let them know their goals are 2-fold:
A) Achieve the win condition of the SK
B) If barring that, at least rack up enough kills to defeat your opponent another player ALSO playing a similar game as you. If you cannot win as the SK of the game, you can still at least get an honorable mention if you can be the "Top Dog SK" (that's what worked for me in Batman- at worst, just MAKE up an award, and tell the player to try to win that said award. That's how I deal with Hal basically having one of the hardest and most impossible win conditions ever as the Riddler. I told him straight up, he was the most complex role, and he probably wasn't going to win. However, if he did pull it off or come close, I'd give him a new name and honor him in my game. So from the outset, Hal knew he was in trouble, but he could have FUN with his role then, as he was basically playing to win a Name Change to "The ultimate PFK Player ever" or something like that.
-You'd be surprised at how effective of a motivator a made up prize can be.