Spoiled Discussion

[Frank]

Is anyone actually still reading over here? Well, I wanted to get this out, so I'll put it here and it can float there, cold and lonely.

The Scum are missing an opportunity right now. With the Day starting out all aimless and floaty, they could easily leverage a mislynch without looking bad at all. Pollux Oil is a really good candidate because some of his guesses about recruitment have been worded strongly enough as to have a faint scent of Perfect Information Syndrome about them. He seems confident that Stark is not recruitable, and feels very strongly that mid-Day recruitment is not happening. He's just right, in this particular case, but he really could be railroaded on this basis.

In general, the Scum should be aggressive in the early part of this game, simply because they will be popularly expected to lay low. I think if I were on the Scum side, I'd suggest a literal collective Scum action - all four pile on Pollux, not necessarily in succession, but giving the impression of a building case. Later, when people go back to look at the record, they will give minor Town points to the voters because they won't expect Scum to be aggressive, and they certainly won't expect all the Scum to operate in concert.

Pollux could easily be forced to claim, and I think if he does claim, he might get lynched. Color-wise, Spider-Man is a both-ways character; he played both sides in the Civil War. A tracker is neither an indispensible Town role nor a role that Scum would never had. Of course, the Scum don't know this, but here's the thing:

In a traditional game, playing noncontroversial on Day One works because the deadline will eventually roll around and you can hope for an ill-thought-out lynch. The intent of this game was in part to force the Scum to play aggressively - sooner or later, they will have to take aggressive action, because otherwise they will not win. So far, they are not doing that, and I think (assuming that the game actually plays out and doesn't need to be euthanized, about which I continue to be concerned) it may hurt them in the long run.

[Hoopy Frood]

I always play aggressively whether town or scum. And I've never been lynched. I think both town and scum play too timidly on the whole.

But I see your point how in this game an aggressive scum effort could be particularly helpful to them.

[naf1138]

Hey! I decided to check this board just to see if the spoiled discussion thread had gone up yet, and I see it has. Days ago.

Story, stop worrying about the game running out of steam. It's doing just fine, it's just that the players haven't figured out how to close a day without a deadline yet. They will. It seems like they are having fun too. It is an interesting read from my perspective as well.

I agree that scum are playing too conservatively right now. Town are playing too conservatively too. I think that will shake out of them sooner rather than later. I fully expect this game to turn into the brutal bloodbaths of the early games (M2, Pirates, M5 etc) eventually. Players just need to learn how to come back out of their shells.

[Hoopy Frood]

What's the URL for the relocated scumboard?

[special]

I should have accepted recruitment. Adding a 5th Scum with some significant night protective powers might have been a good deal.

Now I'm glad that I didn't post that PM in the thread. It would have caused too much concern in the Town.

[Frank]

For anyone seeking them, the Scum Boards are at antireghq.proboards.com, password: lukecage.

Ed, so is there some essential characteristic of this game that has led it to be very slow? If there's a design flaw in here I'd like to identify it for the future.

[special]

Jan 14, 2010 8:24:24 GMT -5 Frank said:

Ed, so is there some essential characteristic of this game that has led it to be very slow? If there's a design flaw in here I'd like to identify it for the future.

It still throws me for a loop when I see people calling me Ed. At first, I don't realize they're talking to me

I think the game styles have changed. Some of the players who used to post a great deal, like me, are much more selective in posting now. I'm certainly not unique in that regard either. I think adding the open ended Day has allowed people to post even less.


It seems the players are playing in a very reserved way. I was tempted to claim on day 1, but I was pretty sure that the Scum would have an unblockable kill (which they did).

I can't help but compare this game to Evil Dead (which I know was on a different board). The game set-up has similarities being completely closed, but there did seem to be a great deal more discussion in that game. The big difference is that Evil Dead had a great amny Vanilla players, and this doesn't.

Yet, despite this, I was really enjoying the game. While it's different, I don't think it's lingering. I think as more is discovered, it will generate more discussion. Right now, everyone is trying to figure out who everyone else is without giving up who they are.

[Hoopy Frood]

What killed Hal? Did Spidey have a retaliatory power?

But town just caught a huge break with his death. No more recruitment, no godfather left. I was giving scum better odds than town for winning, but this shifts things a bit.

[special]

Jan 18, 2010 19:04:56 GMT -5 Hoopy Frood said:

What killed Hal? Did Spidey have a retaliatory power?

But town just caught a huge break with his death. No more recruitment, no godfather left. I was giving scum better odds than town for winning, but this shifts things a bit.

They'd already blown their recruitment by trying to get me. I had hoped my self-protection would work to my benefit that Night, but, at least with my death, I eliminated the possibility of recruitment. So, I basically reduced the Scum numbers by 1.

Of course, down to 3 members does make it iffy.

Has Natlaw remained with the Town?

[Hoopy Frood]

Jan 18, 2010 19:35:29 GMT -5 special said:

Jan 18, 2010 19:04:56 GMT -5 Hoopy Frood said:

What killed Hal? Did Spidey have a retaliatory power?

But town just caught a huge break with his death. No more recruitment, no godfather left. I was giving scum better odds than town for winning, but this shifts things a bit.

They'd already blown their recruitment by trying to get me.

Ahhh...I missed that. When I had checked the Night actions, scum hadn't acted yet and I never rechecked it.

[Hoopy Frood]

nphase is wrong. Peeker did not catch Hawkmod's crumb. Peeker just decided that Hawk and Hal are scum and decided to accuse them. It's peek's style. It's simply a coincidence that Hawk investigated Hal and breadcrumbed it.

npase, your PIS slip is showing.

See, townies should never, ever point out a crumb made by someone who is still alive. Even when revealed that the crumb is wrong. Because crumbs are downright useless until the crumber is dead. They mean nothing otherwise and can't be trusted until then. But if they are trustworthy, you're revealing something that town doesn't need to know at that moment and scum shouldn't know at that moment. It's horrible anti-town play. Now since scum can talk amongst each other at any time, it's not a pro-scum play in of itself. There is no pro-scum reason to go pointing out these crumbs since you can just mention it privately to your fellow scum. However, using it as a reason to assume a crumber is lying and voting them for it is a very pro-scum motivation. And it's completely anti-town behavior. nphase knows about godfathers. Her excuse doesn't hold water. She's not some newbie who made an error. nphase should be lynched toDay.

[special]

For the hammering issue, how do you think it would play out if there was a hammering requirement AND a time deadline. If the Town didn't reach the threshold by the deadline, then there would be no lynch

A no lynch is usually considered bad for Town. So there might be data in the people who didn't go with a lynch, so it might add that pressure.

The deadline could be pretty long (like 2 weeks) to allow for an extended Day if that's what the Town really wanted. Or it could be shorter to push the game along.

[special]

Why is Hal dead?

I was just looking through and I can't find what killed him

[Frank]

Hal is dead because mhaye targeted Total Lost, and Hal killed Total Lost. Mhaye's power allows him to kill the player who kills his target. Mhaye's power is now used and he has no further powers.

I think I'm going to institute a deadline. The game needs a kick in the pants and no matter how many players claim they like this mechanic, in practice it just means that no one ever spends any actual time playing.

[total]

I have to say I really don't think it's the hammer-mechanism that keeps the game so slow. I think it's more to do with the no-vanilla-issue.

When I'm vanilla I play like crazy - trying to figure all kind of stuff out. When I got a power I try to stay low and use the power I was given. I know this and always try to compensate - but it has happened over and over again to me.

It was only because I subbed in, that I came on so strong (and maybe I shouldn't have - but reading the frustrated Peeker really made me as as frustrated as he was). If this goes on Town don't deserve to win this one - they're not playing mafia - they seem to sit around and wait for someone to point them towards a lynch.

* and I knew (just KNEW) nphrase was scum. First one for my scumbar - halleluja - I really got one then!!