Howdy

[normalphase]

Filled out a clan with Skeez, Guiri, and Cookies. Peeker wants me in with him and Zuma -- I had mentioned your idea about informal alliances, but he's not admitting to seeing the use of that.

Ah, the complications.

[normalphase]

Now he does >_> .

Since people are revealing stuff in the thread already, do you want to start a thread for info on other players?

[Frank]

May 20, 2010 14:38:34 GMT -5 normalphase said:

Filled out a clan with Skeez, Guiri, and Cookies. Peeker wants me in with him and Zuma -- I had mentioned your idea about informal alliances, but he's not admitting to seeing the use of that.

Ah, the complications.

Heh. Let me write to him. I'll also start a "stuff we've learned" page, but it'll have to wait until tomorrow morning because I have a rehearsal. I'm hoping we can begin to narrow the field of potential House of Chains candidates based on the things they claim - anyone who claims a power that a HoC member doesn't have (all of the others have exactly the same powers I have) is probably not HoC, because that'd be a risky move (claiming a power you can't demonstrate).

[Frank]

Quick note, following on some of the ongoing discussion, and then I really have to go to rehearsal - the Master of the Deck of Dragons evidently needs to kill everyone. My role PM also specifies that he wants to eliminate all Members in Chains and that no Member in Chain can be victorious until the Deck Master is dead.

[normalphase]

I think Moley is getting some undeserved heat, because his assessment of the basic setup is virtually identical to what I was thinking even without your reveal. MoDD = "serial killer", probably though not definitely with the ability to kill every night. "House of Chains" = "mafia", though handicapped in many ways and perhaps not truly a team at that. Ascendents = town, though likewise severely handicapped by game-mandated in-fighting. And probably a few other roles.

The other HoC have *exactly* the same powers that you have? That can't be precisely true.

I wanted to ask you if you have a cover role.

[Frank]

May 20, 2010 20:25:58 GMT -5 normalphase said:

The other HoC have *exactly* the same powers that you have? That can't be precisely true.

Well, here's the relevant portion of my PM:

"Fortunately, you have been given a wide array of powers to use as you see fit. (Unfortunately, all fellow members of your House have identical powers, and they know you have them as well.)"

If you can figure an alternative interpretation, I'm open to it.

I wanted to ask you if you have a cover role.

No, I don't. Which means, by the way, that most of the House of Chains could probably be revealed by a mass claim.

[normalphase]

Even the part about only being able to kill other members of the House of Chains? That's the part I'm sticking on.

I'm in a massively cranky mood today due to a colossal screw-up in a game on another forum, so I may not be very useful.

(Just because I have to rant or I'll scream, and I have no one to rant to: it's a game with unlimited private communication, and by day three I had gotten a metric ton of information. I knew most of the major power roles in the game (and I was one myself). I also knew I was very vulnerable to night-kill. This completely horrible player gets under lynch pressure and reveals (as an alignment scanner) so late that the gets lynched anyway. He has one innocent scan result, which he tells everybody. I double check the reliability of this result in every way possible, and then tell the person in question everything I know.

I get night-killed. Turns out the alignment scanner was random, and the person he confirmed innocent? Mafia. I've just given away the information of virtually every important innocent power role in the game, to the mafia. Which would be bad enough, but the players in question also happen, due to random chance, to have been virtually all of the really excellent players in the game. The odds of them figuring it out before they're all wiped out are slim, and if they don't do it, there's no chance the rest will.

I've never single-handedly lost a game for the innocents before, and it is hugely painful. I've been on a bad enough streak lately anyway, but this takes the cake.

Still think you want me as a partner?

Or heck maybe you are lying, and this is just more of the same.

Bad, BAD mood.)

[Frank]

May 21, 2010 9:25:44 GMT -5 normalphase said:

Even the part about only being able to kill other members of the House of Chains? That's the part I'm sticking on.

Yup. We're all only able to kill each other. The implications of that are that there must be multiple Night kill powers floating around out there - beyond the Master of the Deck, who is probably a Serial Killer, my uninformed guess is that some number of non-Chain Ascendants have Night kill powers... and a Clan that grabs one of those Ascendants will eventually be in a very good position.

Still think you want me as a partner?

Or heck maybe you are lying, and this is just more of the same.

Bad, BAD mood.)

Sorry about that. But yeah, I'm sure. I think we're going to be in good shape.

So I have a plan for the next phase, and I'd like to critique it.

I have received two more offers/thoughts from people. One is from a Clan that is forming with peeker, Mahaloth, and Special Ed; they want me to be their fourth. I have accepted, but told them honestly that I could not make their Clan my Primary right now. This will limit the size of that Clan to just the three of them.

But I have also been contacted by sinjin. She claims to be in a clan with Special Ed, and says that she and he did a win condition handshake before anything wincondition-ish was posted - so she trusts him right now. She is a Doctor; I don't know, yet, what Ed might be.

Here's my idea. I will ask sinjin to make her Clan with Ed her primary Clan, and to disclose the name of that Clan to me. Hopefully, we can use the Clan information that comes up to confirm that sinjin is indeed non-HoC (and if she isn't, we can maybe provisionally trust Ed).

On Day Two, we bring Ed and sinjin here and tell them what we know. I'll make them the same offer I made you, and hopefully they will accept. The three of you can form a Clan representing your real interests, with me as an adjunct. This gives you an open slot for future recruitment. Between your power, mine, and sinjin's, we can probably ensure that none of the four of us is in significant danger at Night, and coordinate during the Day to keep ourselves off the chopping block. Assuming we all survive until Day Four or so, you pull a fourth into your Clan, giving us a block of five in a game of 15-17 - which should be quite powerful. Then we start hunting the other Members in Chains, wipe them out. I vanish, leaving your block of four with a downhill run to the win.

Obviously, we'll need to consider short-term tactics very carefully along the way, but how does that sound as a long-term strategy?

[normalphase]

VC handshake prior to the sample PM going up? That sounds fairly definitive.

I'm still not thinking very straight, so can't comment to much on your strategy. It looks good at first glance. One thing that occurs to me is you'd probably be wise to limit your clan choices to those that have an ally in them to help cover for you as regards the primary clan thing, so in that sense you joining a clan with Ed is a good move.

Also about the summary thread and your thoughts on Skeez -- you may well be correct about him. One of his first points in the strategy post he just made in our forum was regarding none of us choosing that clan as our Primary for now, so as not to appear too much of a threat. I suggested one or two of us do so at all times, as a means of attracting interest/information; he agreed but with a "I don't think that's so important for day one" sort of tack-on that certainly suggests he has something going on in his head.

I sent off a "non-aggression proposal" PM to Ed. I feel like I'm falling rather behind, but will have little time until Monday.

Skeez has a rather impressive list of powers collected, but no names attached just yet. At least someone I know is doing that; I'm really pushing the trust thing over there.

[normalphase]

(I do really *need* that information, as a Bus Driver.)

Edit: or rather, no I don't. I'm confusing myself. It's a redirector who needs to know that. *I* need to know who's doing what at night.

[normalphase]

Had a thought about my power, that it might be best to disguise it, so I was free to use it pro-actively, not tied to anyone's agenda other than our own. I could claim immunity to night kills, which protection from you would be able to simulate and which is not one of the HoC powers. Of course then I lose most semblance of usefulness to anyone else, plus tie you down most of the time (of course I'd be tied down in any case keeping killers and investigators away from you), PLUS if anyone who knew my claim did want to kill me, they'd know exactly how to do it (in the daytime).

Still, it would simplify things considerably compared to claiming Bus Driver to people and being expected to put that to use every night.

[Frank]

May 21, 2010 13:33:03 GMT -5 normalphase said:

Had a thought about my power, that it might be best to disguise it, so I was free to use it pro-actively, not tied to anyone's agenda other than our own. I could claim immunity to night kills, which protection from you would be able to simulate and which is not one of the HoC powers. Of course then I lose most semblance of usefulness to anyone else, plus tie you down most of the time (of course I'd be tied down in any case keeping killers and investigators away from you), PLUS if anyone who knew my claim did want to kill me, they'd know exactly how to do it (in the daytime).

Still, it would simplify things considerably compared to claiming Bus Driver to people and being expected to put that to use every night.

I think that's a good idea, if you're forced to claim. If someone has a Day kill and wants to kill you (or me), then there's not much we can do about it, in the end.

We should get a head start on discussing our Night actions, in case one of us is away for a stretch or something. My inclination is to protect you, and to have you redirect all actions from me to someone who is unlikely to be killed or investigated - maybe Honest Moley, or someone like that? I guess we could really get aggressive and have me go trying to kill or investigate, but that risks your life and that would be a really bad idea for both of us.

Thoughts?

[Frank]

Oh, and FYI - my last might be my last post for the weekend. I'm directing a show that opens in a few weeks, and we have rehearsal beginning in about two hours, lasting most of the day. I then have family commitments this evening and a most-of-the-day party for the Lost finale tomorrow, so the first serious reading and responding time I'll have will be around midnight on Sunday. I might sneak in for a comment or two, but not much more than that.

[normalphase]

I have weekend issues also. Have you see what Guiri posted about the standard win condition going up three days prior to game start in the All About Clans thread? That needs fact-checking: could impact your opinion of Ed/sinjin.

[normalphase]

More on Ed: what he told Skeez (identical power to Moley's) is apparently not exactly the same as what he told Guiri -- I've asked for clarification from the two of them. Ed never responded to my own PM.

Guiri has revealed a non-HOC type set of powers in our clan forum (mostly daytime, vote related; will C&P on Monday) and is asking for power reveals from the rest of us.

I'm in the process of joining a clan with peeker, Zuma and somebody (clan chill pill -- the one with skeez et al is the Misfits), but I'm considering limiting it to that and playing as a difficult to kill but no-active-power role who realizes that her best bet of making to end game is to be completely and utterly "open" and trustworthy with my primary clan, since I have no power-related leverage. Rolling the considerations around in my head; hopefully will have something to say by Monday.