Spoiler Discussion

[Frank]

Discussion begins here. Can't wait to see how this plays out.

[renata]

Hey Story! I'm looking forward to checking this out.

[renata]

Holy crap that scum team is loaded.

[sachertorte]

The balance on the loaded scum team is that 3rd party SK should try and take out some of those. It's kind of a liability as well.

Chronos has stated some interesting things about committing to ones role PM without divulging information (his acrostic). Taking things further, he could secure hash his entire role PM and lock it in without giving away anything. It's not a big deal, especially since scum have fake role PMs, but still.

I think we are leading to a "no hashing" rule. (Chronos's acrostic is also a hash, though a weak one).

[Frank]

Mar 4, 2012 13:03:21 GMT -5 sachertorte said:

The balance on the loaded scum team is that 3rd party SK should try and take out some of those. It's kind of a liability as well.

Chronos has stated some interesting things about committing to ones role PM without divulging information (his acrostic). Taking things further, he could secure hash his entire role PM and lock it in without giving away anything. It's not a big deal, especially since scum have fake role PMs, but still.

I think we are leading to a "no hashing" rule. (Chronos's acrostic is also a hash, though a weak one).

Of course, in this particular case, it won't help. since the Scum have cover roles. Except that Chronos in particular knows that it might help, since one of those cover roles in compromised. Except that the Scum might recognize this if Chronos keeps banging that particular drum, since they know that one of their roles is compromised. Except that if they do recognize this, are they really going to kill Chronos, who is otherwise powerless?

This is fun!

[sachertorte]

I haven't been paying attention to who has what role. At first I thought you meant Chronos was scum, but then I remembered the compromised role role.

Chronos didn't play his hand very well. I thought he was just being analytical, which I maintain is a clever idea. Commit to a role PM while not giving anything away. BUT! the Acrostic is not secure. A nefarious entity (which chronos is at least to scum) could use the info for other reasons. Everyone is so paranoid.
Chronos could reveal what he knows about the compromised role and thus explain his reason for pushing for an innocuous acrostic. That actually would put scum into a difficult spot. Essentially they would have to choose between risking using the tainted role or having to ditch all the storyteller supplied roles! It's quite brilliant. A full claim by Chronos is a pretty good bet for Day One. Totally worth it in my estimation. So much so, I wish I had seen it before. I would have pressed for you to drop the tainted role role.

[Frank]

Mar 4, 2012 19:56:30 GMT -5 sachertorte said:

I haven't been paying attention to who has what role. At first I thought you meant Chronos was scum, but then I remembered the compromised role role.

Chronos didn't play his hand very well. I thought he was just being analytical, which I maintain is a clever idea. Commit to a role PM while not giving anything away. BUT! the Acrostic is not secure. A nefarious entity (which chronos is at least to scum) could use the info for other reasons. Everyone is so paranoid.
Chronos could reveal what he knows about the compromised role and thus explain his reason for pushing for an innocuous acrostic. That actually would put scum into a difficult spot. Essentially they would have to choose between risking using the tainted role or having to ditch all the storyteller supplied roles! It's quite brilliant. A full claim by Chronos is a pretty good bet for Day One. Totally worth it in my estimation. So much so, I wish I had seen it before. I would have pressed for you to drop the tainted role role.

I don't think I agree. The acrostic plan is flawed because it's trivially easy to handle on the part of the Scum. The first line of the actual tainted role - the Mad Hatter - is this: "Let them say what they will; yours is the heart of a collector." This doesn't exactly identify the Hatter in any meaningful sense. And if the player feels that it does, it would be simple enough to change the semicolon to a period, and post simply "let them say what they will" as the first line (or ltswtw, I guess). Or rearrange the PM so that a less obviously identifying line is the first. Or just change the word "collector" to something more generic. Or just make up a new first line that leads into the rest (move "good things come to pychopaths who wait" to the first line and you have a perfectly generic opening that could apply to nearly any player in the color). The same applies to all of the Scum cover roles.

The full hash thing would work better, but only in the long run and only if Chronos survives long enough to force the right claim - and claiming would reduce the chances of that, since the Scum or even the Joker could decide Chronos makes a good early target.

[sachertorte]

Was Chronos given the entire fake PM or simply that the Mad Hatter was a fake cover?

Either way, you are correct. I agree that scum would be able to change things to avoid detection, but they don't know to what extent. A full hash would be better, but you are right, changing one word would do the trick entirely. The benefit of a full hash is that the full claim would not be eligible to be modified after the hash was shared.

I'm not sure what Chronos was working towards. I guess I'm back to his pushing scum to commit to a role PM without revealing anything to scum about town role PMs -- and that being independent of his extra information, because even without the extra info, locking scum into fake role PM's is advantageous to town at this point. They won't be able to swap roles later and someone may have committed to the compromised role.

[Frank]

Pleonast claims, 100% truthfully. I have to admit I was a little disappointed when Pleo's name popped up as the Joker. I thought about changing it. I think there's really only two possibilities now:

1. Town will simply lynch Pleonast toDay - which is absolutely the most likely thing to happen, thus absolutely wrecking the fun of the role and ensuring that Pleo loses spectacularly; and/or

2. Town will leave him alive for a Day or two, but under monstrous restrictions, and his powers will generally not function because folks will be looking for them. Certainly the Funny Gun is obviated forever now - no one will use it, knowing what it does. How does Pleo ever hope to get to 10 kills without most of his powers?

[Frank]

Actually, no, now that I think about it, the path is clear. They will not lynch Pleo toDay. They will use his Day kill as a second lynch. ToNight, Zsasz (Dirx), who has to kill and will not likely have a better target, will kill Pleonast. There is no way that any of the protective roles are going to burn protective abilities shielding the Joker. Pleonast dies toNight, falling eight short of his goal.

I can't figure out why he'd do this.

[soundlyparanoid]

WELP.

just.. welp. That is an insane third party claim if there has ever been one.

[renata]

Pleo can be an oddball sometimes. How's this affect Bill?

[renata]

Look at Inner being all sensible and nobody's listening. Go, Inner.

[Hoopy Frood]

I'm slowly following along, but I've been busy doing other things.

I just want to pop in and say I've gotten to Stickler's post where he refers to Ed's drunken ramblings (Reply #54) and it made me laugh enough that I almost spit-took my apple onto my computer.

Now I'm off to dinner.

[catinasuit]

Hmm, just caught up.

Pleonast revealing the Joker role, is the normal way of play and in part the right thing to do. Full disclosure on a role which would get him lynched if he had to claim later and offer to work in part for the town.

Unfortunately, it's a wide open target for the rest of the bloodthirsty psychos in the game.